"InfinityAero" (infinityaero)
05/18/2016 at 12:53 • Filed to: None
7
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"InfinityAero" (infinityaero)
05/18/2016 at 12:53 • Filed to: None | 7
| 28 |
Pulling off the plastic rocker covers on the Fiat revealed some ugly rust to the sheetmetal below...
After cutting back to reveal the extent of the rust
New Patch welded in, grinded down, and welded over
With rust inhibitor
Primed and done! Still need to put in a small patch panel at the front and bottom of the assembly...
Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig
> InfinityAero
05/18/2016 at 12:56 |
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NICE.
Future next gen S2000 owner
> InfinityAero
05/18/2016 at 13:08 |
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Guy bitches at you for being lazy and suggests the lazy way to repair rust....
Dru
> Future next gen S2000 owner
05/18/2016 at 13:19 |
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Whats the non lazy way?
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Future next gen S2000 owner
> Dru
05/18/2016 at 13:22 |
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Replacing/repairing the sheet metal.
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Dru
> Future next gen S2000 owner
05/18/2016 at 13:24 |
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What's happening in OP's photos? (honest question, I have a similar project on the horizon and have even less idea what I'm doing.)
getFuckedHerb
> InfinityAero
05/18/2016 at 13:33 |
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So first, good on you for choosing to do so (the guys on the forum are right, after all). Second, get some scrap and practice, what sort of welder are you using?
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Future next gen S2000 owner
> Dru
05/18/2016 at 13:35 |
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Rust repair on a lower rocker panel. Looks like it to me at least. Although that question is probably better directed toward the OP. Whatever you do, just don’t bondo over rust. Think of it like cancer. you have to get rid of it completely or it will just keep getting worse.
E92M3
> InfinityAero
05/18/2016 at 13:35 |
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Way better than what I could do, but shouldn’t you have gone over the welds again (after grinding them the first time), and then grind them again? Looks like there’s a lot of little gaps still in the welds?
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InfinityAero
> E92M3
05/18/2016 at 13:46 |
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Absolutely, that would be the optimal approach. Any holes will eventually lead to rust worming its way to the backside of the metal.
Unfortunately for me, the Fiat is not the best of cars to learn to weld on. It’s primarily made up of 19-21 gauge metal— extremely thin, so burn-through and grinding through the metal are real concerns.
In this scenario, the weld will be covered by by the plastic rocker so I’m not worried about it visually. After looking at the picture again, I’m pretty sure I took this one before grinding/re-welding. There weren’t any remaining holes visible by the time I sealed it up. I’ll likely glop some cosmoline along the weld lines before covering it back up, to prevent moisture from getting behind the patch panel, and then I’ll plan to pull the cover back off next year to inspect how it’s holding up.
Worst case scenario I’ll grind back the welds next winter and go over them until it’s a perfect metal seam, but I think it’ll hold up OK as-is, and should restore a little structural rigidity in the meantime!
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InfinityAero
> getFuckedHerb
05/18/2016 at 13:54 |
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These welds were done with the cheapie Harbor Freight 90A flux-core welder. Picked it up in-store last week for $110.
It’s not as nice as the home depot unit I rented a few weeks ago or the unit my buddy borrows from his dad on occasion, especially for welding in new sheet metal on the body, as it only has “low” or “high” power settings instead of an analog dial.
With the thin sheet metal I’m dealing with, I pretty much have to stay exclusive to the low power setting, and I can’t run a bead along the butt weld— it just burns through far too easily. Instead, I’m pretty much tacking along the weld line— extremely time consuming but works.
I would call this welding job practice as much as anything else— it’s a non-visible, non-structurually integral area of the car. I’m building up to the one essential area I have to work with, the shock towers. With the old 124s, almost all the structural integrity comes from the shock towers and transmission tunnel, so that’s where my work will have to be bordering on perfect. Thankfully the metal is a little thicker there; two sandwiched sheets of 1/8" instead of 21 gauge...
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InfinityAero
> Future next gen S2000 owner
05/18/2016 at 13:58 |
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Yep, I fear my misleading title led you to think they were recommending that I bondo or fiberglass to repair, in fact, that’s why I would have done on my own before they set me straight! Title changed accordingly.
Meatcoma
> InfinityAero
05/18/2016 at 14:02 |
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Lincoln wire will give you less spatter.
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Meatcoma
> InfinityAero
05/18/2016 at 14:04 |
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!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!
The guys on the Fiat forums yelled at me not to be lazy with rust repair by slapping on some fiberglass or bondo, so I’m learning to weld... Here’s the past weeks work.
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Meatcoma
> InfinityAero
05/18/2016 at 14:06 |
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I replied above, but like I said, buy some better wire once you’ve got the idea down. Lincoln wire has much less splatter with that cheapy HF welder.
Also, this guy has some really good tips for those welders to make them ‘decent’.
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getFuckedHerb
> InfinityAero
05/18/2016 at 14:06 |
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Yea the High/Low switch only is a real bummer there. Can you slow the line speed down a bit? Practice practice etc but on that thing of stuff it’s a challenge to get going properly. Keep at it.
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InfinityAero
> Meatcoma
05/18/2016 at 14:38 |
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Awesome, I have a roll of that in .8 already! Didn’t think about the fact that the wire itself would be inferior. Will def check out that video!
Speed is variable, thankfully. Picked up an autodarkening helmet for $50 at the same time, that’s a huge lifesaver! Seems to work best between 3 and 4.5.
Cheapie unit for sure, but the price was unbeatable. I’ll use it for this project at least, and flip it for some cash towards a better unit down the line. I think I’ve been bit by the welding bug; it’s actually a lot of fun! As with all new hobbies “welcome, now open your wallet...."
BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
> InfinityAero
05/18/2016 at 17:43 |
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Nice :) welding’s great (I spend most of my time doing it). At the moment I’m making up a collapsible a-frame rotisserie (with a little crank handle to turn it over with) to spin my Spitfire body upside-down.
Saving me ~£700 making it myself :)
I also made my own car transporter trailer from the chassis of a caravan, a load of box section and some checker-plate. Again, saved about £600 over the price of even a second hand trailer...
I’d definitely say investing in a half-decent MIG welder with a gas supply is a big help. We got ours from an auction for £60 (I think) and it’s brilliant. Ancient thing, but it’s from some Italian factory and has a ton of cool settings I haven’t even tried yet :)
Oh, have you treated the inside of the box section at the back where the rust keeps going? If not that’ll just bubble up sooner or later and you’ll have to do it again (ask me how I know).
I’ve taken to hitting the inside of any areas with a phosphoric acid solution to neutralise any rust and then spraying on some weld-through primer (normal paint tends to just catch fire inside the box section). If I’m feeling fancy afterwards I’ll waxoyl it as well, but that’s only for special occasions...
415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°)
> InfinityAero
05/18/2016 at 17:56 |
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I know how that is!
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InfinityAero
> BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
05/18/2016 at 18:08 |
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I did indeed hit every spot I could on the backside! Unfortunately not all areas were accessible. So I’m sure it’ll be back eventually.
My goal is to get the old girl back on the road within a month or two, but if I fall in love with the car I’ll likely cut her back open and try to get to all the rusted metal behind the body sheet metal.
When I used cosmoline while patching sections behind the doors, the heat of the welding started a few minor fires and it poured out of the bottom as a liquid. To quote Trump: “Bad!”. The loctite I used this time didn’t seem to have any problems...
My boss was telling me that a lot of the MG guys (he has a ‘78) use an expanding, rust inhibiting foam after welding in patches... that’s something I should definitely look into.
How was the learning curve with using a gas MIG? I’m stuck using a 110V outlet in my carport, which limits the selection for welders quite a bit from what I’ve seen... not sure if that’s relevant.
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BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
> InfinityAero
05/18/2016 at 18:17 |
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Interesting bout the rust-inhibiting foam. I’ll have to look that up too...
Once you’ve got the basics of any other type of welding MIG is quite easy to pick up (and the gas really just makes it easier to get clean welds compared to flux-core).
Bummer on the 110v thing though. It’d probably be a bit of a project to make a socking great transformer to boost it up to 230v as well :S would be interesting if possible though...
MM54
> BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
05/18/2016 at 19:48 |
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Watts are watts, you’d just trip the 120V circuit if you tried to step it up. 5A at 240V = 10A at 120V and so on.
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BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
> MM54
05/18/2016 at 20:22 |
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Gotcha. Must learn more about electrics...
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InfinityAero
> BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
05/18/2016 at 20:40 |
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I would guess most are using “great stuff”. I believe the approach is drill a hole big enough to spray it in and high enough to leverage gravity, then patch the hole. I’ll ask at work next time it comes to mind; he’d looked into it a bit.
Relevant to this discussion: he’s a master welder. That said, he wants *me* to help him with the rust repair on his MG... because he’s never welded thin sheet metal. Totally different process, in his opinion at least... I’ll probably see if he can help with the shock tower repair, since that’s 1/8 instead of 21Ga
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InfinityAero
> 415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°)
05/18/2016 at 20:46 |
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Hehe!
From various states on each side. Just a couple pinholes left by the time I was done, which I filled with bondo right away. It was that or cut out more metal, any attempts to fill the pinholes resulted in the remaining metal burning through. You’d think they’d contracted with coca cola to make the sheet metal.... but I suppose it’s 1900 lbs for a reason.
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415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°)
> InfinityAero
05/18/2016 at 20:50 |
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They make a piece just for this dog leg spot on S30 Zs, the drainage was shit in that spot and they all rot from the inside.
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InfinityAero
> 415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°)
05/18/2016 at 21:03 |
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Just stop, please ;) I miss my S130 turbo so much! And it was rust free! Not quite as much as my old AWD E30, which led to my current rust paranoia. There was no good metal to even weld to when a shock mount blew, the whole thing was rust head to toe, held together by the factory weatherproofing.
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BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires
> InfinityAero
05/19/2016 at 04:15 |
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Interesting. It can be a lot more fiddly welding thin gauge stuff. With thicker metal it’s more a case of pumping enough heat in to get adequate penetration, and you’ve got more time to work on your hand movements.
With thin stuff there's a narrower window between getting it to stick together and blowing through...
Jake Huitt - Two Alfas And A Nissan, Not A Single Running Car
> InfinityAero
05/19/2016 at 04:25 |
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110 welders are out there. I have an old Miller mig unit that's 110.